How do I downvote
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@hotson21 I don’t see you doing any “balancing” on the civilian end of the stick, hence why some people will feel this is a suggestion to benefit civilians.
You make the point that it’s unrealistic for an armed civilian to be PAVA sprayed, along with some other points. But how about the unrealism on the civilian side?
For a bit of context, in England armed threats are taken extremely seriously. A single armed man can warrant CTSFO shutting down numerous streets and evacuating countless buildings. So if, in real life, buckingham palace was breached by 10+ civilians, each carrying 5 assault rifles and a full bag of medical supplies, you can forget the police because the SAS would be flown in and the entire city would be put on lockdown. What would be considered a national crisis IRL is a regular day in this game.
Not only that, but no amount of money would get a mass-mudering, palace raiding, terrorist leader out of prison. Yet again, in buckingham palace you can kill half the police force but be out in a few minutes so long as you have a couple grand sitting in the bank.
Some suggestions to balance the game on the civilian end, to match your suggestions on the police end:
Limit gun access:
- Vendors should not be permanent, but should pop up in random locations
- Location of vendors should not be shown on the map
- Large weapons such as assault rifles cannot be concealed
- Weapon prices should be realistic (thousands at the minimum)
- Weapons will take time to be imported and smuggled into the country
Increase custody realism:
- Custody time should be more realistic (e.g. murder should be alot longer than dangerous driving)
- Bail should not be available for serious crimes such as murder
Improve terrorist/gang identification:
- Like in real life, the police should build detailed reports on known gangs and terrorist organisations
- These can then be raided en-masse, taking down all known associates
- Anyone who can be linked to criminals should be investigated and searched
You then need to consider your and your teams playstyle, which is again very far from realistic.
- Constantly failing to stop and fleeing from police
- Constantly murdering every police officer in sight
- Standing 3 feet from armed murderers then questioning why you are being searched by police
- Running towards officers from behind while they are being shot at by terrorists wearing the same outfit as you from the other direction then claiming they have no grounds to detain you
- Constantly questioning and “clipped reported” every single action taken by a police officer
- Targetting specialist firearms officers
Overall, if you want to make the argument that police do not play realisically then you have to acknowledge that the typical civilian playstyle is also far from realistic
7 Likes
most reasonable counter argument and better points from Ollie here
When you were talking about police coming again to the crime scene after being downed. Yes, that shouldn’t be like that but same it is on the civilian side. They should pull over when I turn my blues on if they are speeding or they are doing something that is punishable. So it applies to both sides. People just don’t want to do any of it.
Hey Ollie, appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts — I’ll respond to them clearly and respectfully.
First, I want to make it absolutely clear: I am not calling for PAVA to be removed from the game. I am calling for a change in how it’s being used and highlighting that, in its current form, it is too powerful and unrealistic. The way it’s used now — jumping out of vehicles, instantly equipping it, and disabling a civilian completely within a second — removes all counterplay and strips the experience of any meaningful balance. That’s the issue I’m addressing.
Now to your point about civilian realism: yes, there are definitely unrealistic aspects on the civilian side. But let’s not forget — this is still a game. If we really aimed for full realism, the police wouldn’t even engage; it would be military lockdown and civilians wouldn’t even have access to basic firearms. So the argument that civs are “unrealistic” cuts both ways — and frankly, MPS and RG do plenty of unrealistic things as well. Let’s be honest about that.
What I do find concerning is the complete lack of recognition of how unbalanced civilian gameplay has become over time. The last major updates and gameplay improvements have been almost entirely MPS- and RG-focused. Civilians, especially those who enjoy more competitive, strategic play, have been pushed aside — and the fact that you don’t acknowledge that is honestly quite shocking.
This game relies on a healthy balance between the teams. If you’re pushing for even more restrictions on civilians — longer custody, fewer weapons, fewer mechanics — then what’s left to keep civs engaged? Because if we continue down that road, you’ll have a police force standing around all day waiting for nothing, because no serious civilian players will be left to interact with.
Instead of pushing for changes that further limit the civilian experience, try stepping into our perspective, like I always try to do with MPS. You’ll see that the points I raise are about creating balance, keeping the game fun, competitive, and dynamic — not just for us, but for everyone involved.
Let’s not forget: civilians are what drive the content in this game. Without that element, there is no real challenge, no tension, no story. So if anything, we should be discussing how to enrich the civilian experience — not diminish it further.
Let me know your thoughts
You seem to have misunderstood what I said. Firstly, I never disagreed with your points about MPS being unrealistic. I was judt balanced your argument, your original post only highlighted issues with MPS realism so to balance that I only highlighted issues with civilian realism.
Also, I’m not pushing for these changes. The only change I would like to see is for vendor locations to be randomised. The only reason for this is it makes it impossible for MPS to handle situations at National Gallery as civilians can instantly spawn in, by weapons from the vendor, and kill the MPS.
Other than that I’m not personally pushing for any other changes I sent, but nor do I really think all of your changes would be added. Don’t get me wrong, some of them sound great, but I can already see how in this community they would be abused to further tackle MPS and turn this game into even more of a warzone than it already is.
You also need to acknowledge the undeniable advantage of civilian - no rules. Your group in particular make a habit of targetting MPS, then being toxic and petty towards them, then reporting them for the slightest mistake. Known commonly as “clip farming”. And this game has the most afwul clip culture I have ever seen. You can make a flawless and undeniably reasonable arrest and yet still be told you are being clipped and that you will lose your job.
Unfortunately, this is a real concern to MPS (and RG) players, both the people in serious divisions and the casual players. This culture created by civilian groups such as yours makes MPS players extremely cautious and unwilling to engage as what you may see as more enjoyable and realistic gameplay, for fear that one mistake could get them suspended from the team or kicked out of their division.
This point is relevant as some of your suggestions will further this issue. For example, the ability for civilians to disguise. Because at what level is considered reasonable suspicion in which police officers can take action. For example, lets say “bobross123” disguises as “johhyjohn” and kills a police officer. However an onlooking LAS sees john undisguised back to his real character, bob. If he reports this to police, they would have reasonable suspicion to stop and search john. However, the chances are that our friend john is part of a reputable ‘we hate MPS’ civilian group, who for some reason seems to take pleasure in getting MPS players punished, despite it not giving him any benefit other that the strange satisfaction that some player now has a less enjoyable time on the game. So john will trim his clip and manipulate the facts to claim that the police randomly searched him, and there is no evidence proving he committed any crimes. You can see how the fear of this happening would drive many players from making arrests at all.
Again with the gas masks. If MPS is constantly under attack, and a squad of civilians in gas masks are seen lurking by the entrance, would that not raise suspicion, reasonable for a search? Of course, this context would obviously be left out in the report. The clip submitted would simply show an MPS officer charging idle civilians and searching them, who of course is a “corrupt” officer who needs to be sacked immediately.
This issue of maliciously modifying clips to create reports is a real issue, one I have experienced first hand. I have also witnessed members of my team hand in their resignations, due to the culture created by these toxic civilian groups. Beleive it or not, some people join a roleplay game to roleplay, not be surrounded by armed gunmen in ferarris every time they leave the police station.
I appreciate this has gone on a small tandem, but in essence what I’m saying is that the game isn’t perfect but nor is the community. Your suggestions, and indeed my own too, are pushing the balance in one way or another respectively. However, adding balances to either side does not correct the overarching issue of the toxic nature within the community, and I believe that if your suggestions were to be added, especially with no counter-balance, it would highten the leg which civlians already stand on to essentially bully MPS, and wave the threat of reports over their head even more to the point where the game could become almost unplayable for many police officers.
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Thanks for your detailed response — I appreciate the time and thought you put into it.
That being said, I think your message shifted quite far from the original purpose of the suggestion I made. My primary concern was — and still is — the misuse of PAVA and the unrealistic power it holds in its current state. That’s the core of what I brought up: not the community, not toxicity, not punishments — just the way PAVA is being used and how it affects gameplay balance.
I absolutely hear your concerns about the wider community culture. I’m genuinely sorry that you or your teammates have had those experiences. However, I personally have not seen or been made aware of any of my members engaging in toxicity or “clip farming.” If any of them are involved in that kind of behavior, I will handle it directly and make sure it’s dealt with properly — that’s a promise.
I’ve been around this game and community since almost the very start. I know the dynamics, the shifts in gameplay, and what keeps the player base engaged. And I genuinely believe the suggestions I brought forward — while maybe not all simple to implement — offer a chance to rebalance things and bring fun and challenge back to all sides, not just civilians.
Regarding your comments on the disguise system — I understand your concerns and why it might be tricky to moderate. But that’s a conversation for implementation details. I proposed it as a creative feature to add depth and strategy. Again, if anyone in my group abused it (or any mechanic) and it resulted in unfair reports or toxicity, you’d just need to let me know — and me or my staff will handle.
As for the gas mask suggestion — I’m honestly surprised by your response. That idea came from a very simple place: giving civilians some way to counter PAVA. The scenario you painted is extreme and highly unlikely. Let’s stay realistic. The point of the gas mask isn’t to abuse search mechanics, it’s to protect against a tool that currently gives MPS a near-instant win in any close-range engagement. (And its being abused) That’s what needs to be looked at.
So let’s bring this back to where we started — balancing the game in a way that makes it enjoyable for everyone, not just giving MPS/RG free advantages while civilians are expected to grind, spend (real) money, and deal with constant setbacks. We all want this game to thrive — and that only happens when it’s fun, fair, and rewarding no matter what team you choose.
Looking forward to your response
You mention that PAVA is unfair because it is too powerful. However what about the major disadvantage that it can only be used an an incredibly close range? You as a civilian can shoot the officer from the other side of the street, well out the way of PAVA.
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You make the point that PAVA is limited by its close-range use — and yes, that’s true. But let’s be fair and look at the full picture. Civilians have access to long-range weapons, sure — but so does the police. In addition to that, MPS has access to bulletproof vehicles, which gives them a significant tactical advantage in gunfights. Officers can shoot behind their vehicles with protection, while civilians have no such defense.
Do you see us constantly complaining about that? No — we actually enjoy the challenge. It makes the game competitive and requires more skill from our side to neutralize a police officer who’s using their vehicle smartly. That’s a good, healthy kind of balance.
The issue with PAVA isn’t that it exists — it’s a tool I personally like being in the game. The problem is with how powerful and unrealistic it is in its current form. Getting hit with PAVA slows you down, completely wipes your inventory, and basically renders you helpless. That’s not even close to real life. In reality, even when pepper sprayed, a person can still move, grab objects, and defend themselves to an extent — they’re impaired, not entirely shut down.
All I’m asking for is that we acknowledge both sides have advantages and work toward something more balanced. PAVA in its current form gives the police an almost guaranteed win in close-range fights, and that shouldn’t be the case in a game meant to be fun for all players, not just one side.
Please do not forget that civilians had the ability to do so much more in the begin of the game, compared to now. We are minimised to ramming your vehicles only and killing only. There is nothing else that civilians can do. Or you like standing outside of BP so much that you spend your entire day there, just to be cuff abused by a Trainee Constable.
How would you balance PAVA?
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To directly answer: PAVA should be balanced by reducing its overall power and effect .
I believe the following changes would create a much fairer, more engaging system:
- PAVA should impair vision and slightly reduce movement, but not completely disable the player. Being hit should trigger a dynamic animation (e.g., holding eyes, stumbling) to show the effect, while still allowing the civilian to:
- Run away at reduced speed
- Access their inventory/tools (even if it’s slower or with penalties)In real life, being pepper sprayed is painful and disorienting — but you’re not paralyzed. You can still move, grab things, and react. That realism should be reflected in-game.
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Introduce gas masks as an equipment item. This adds a counterplay mechanic that makes engagements with ARVs more strategic. Civilians would need to purchase and equip gas masks to resist PAVA, while MPS would need to identify who’s protected or not.This is similar to how MPS officers use bulletproof vehicles to gain an edge. Do we complain? No — we see it as a fun challenge to overcome.The same competitive balance should apply the other way around. If some officers heavily rely on PAVA, then civilians should have tools like gas masks to level the field.
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Limited number of PAVA uses per patrol: There should be a max usage count. This forces officers to think tactically, not just default to PAVA.
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Taser + PAVA stacking should be disabled: Currently, officers can chain both, making escape impossible. If you’re tased, you shouldn’t also be PAVA’d at the same time — this creates unavoidable arrests, which isn’t fun or competitive.
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Add a “spray backfire” risk for officers
- If an officer uses PAVA in enclosed spaces or too close , they get some of the effect too
- This adds risk to using it carelessly
- Encourages tactical use rather than using it in every encounter
- Make it that the civilian needs to be facing towards the PAVA to be actually pava’d. Right now even if you have your back towards the PAVA, you still get the powerful effects of what the pava has. This makes it more realistic and challenging and less abusing for MPS to rely on it.
You see alot of MPS rely on PAVA and then instantly cuff with 0 skill.
Another mechanic that needs improvement is cuffing.
Right now, you press a button and the player is instantly cuffed. That’s not realistic, and also removes all skill from the interaction.
Here’s my suggestion:
- Cuffing should require a short animation and/or interaction mechanic , such as:
- Placing the suspect’s hands behind their back (with a hold or positioning mechanic)
- Clicking on their hands or wrists to attach cuffs (like a skill-check)
- Using a short timer where the player must stand still (if they move, cuffing fails)
- Optional: require a “cuffing kit” or lockpick-style mini interaction to simulate real-life restraint
This makes it more rewarding to secure an arrest, and gives civilians a slim chance to escape or fight back, which would bring balance and immersion.
Again, none of this is about hurting the MPS experience — it’s about giving both sides more challenge and realism.
Just like you guys enjoy bulletproof vehicles and gear, we civilians enjoy overcoming that with creative gameplay. But if mechanics like PAVA and cuffing are too overpowered, it removes the challenge and tilts the whole game one way. (Remember when AWP’s had one taps before, and we couldve jumped whilst sniping. Yes you guys couldve done the same, however us civilians usually had 7/8 members with snipers and holding BP roof for hours whilst also being able to do jump shots, making it very challenging and competitive for Trojans and GG/RMP to regain control of the roof, this was very fun for all sides)
Let me know what you think of this
Response: The PAVA Is Overpowered – And Here’s Why
Hi Ollie, and everyone else reading,
I’d like to offer a structured and honest perspective on the civilian gameplay, the PAVA spray, and the economy — because they are all deeply connected, and the current situation deserves a serious look.
The Current Economy Makes Real Counterplay Impossible
Let’s start with the basics: the economy doesn’t support civilian counterplay. When we bring up ideas like gas masks or other tools to counter PAVA, we’re not suggesting they’re viable right now. We’re saying they could be meaningful mechanics if the economy allowed it.
But it doesn’t.
Right now, civilians can barely afford a basic loadout:
• A weapon
• A medkit
• Armor
• A splint
That already costs $1,000 or more. After every death, we have to manually repurchase everything, with no loadout system, no refunds, and often while being spawn-camped. So even if we wanted to invest in counter-tools, we just don’t have the financial space to do so.
So yes, gas masks could be an interesting counter — but only after the economy gets fixed. Right now, it’s just not feasible.
The PAVA: A Close-Range Instant Win Tool
The PAVA heavily slows the civilian, blocks part of the screen, and disables all reaction. Even though vision is “partially visible,” in practice, it removes all control from the civilian the moment it’s used.
It doesn’t require precision. It activates instantly. It beats tasers in coverage and speed. It’s become the default go-to tool, not for strategy, but for ease.
People say “civilians have long-range guns,” as if that balances it out. But that makes no sense — PAVA is only used in close quarters, and in close quarters, firearms offer no advantage once you’re hit.
That comparison falls apart the moment an MPS gets close — and they always do. Especially using armored cars or tactical rushing. When that happens, there’s no escape, no counterplay — and that’s the problem.
Let’s Be Honest About the Roleplay Element
Speaking for myself as a civilian — and based on what I’ve seen from many MPS players as well — it’s clear that while this game includes some RP elements, it doesn’t operate as a serious or structured roleplay environment.
MPS units often act more like tactical PvP teams than roleplay police. They drive armored cars straight into shootouts, rush civilians with tasers and PAVA, and rarely engage in character-based interaction. Civilians react the same way — we carry multiple weapons, coordinate fast raids, and adapt purely based on mechanics, not immersion.
And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. But if neither side is truly roleplaying, then we should stop using “realism” or “RP” as the basis for justifying mechanics like PAVA, or for criticizing civilian strategies.
The game itself encourages criminal activity in its description. That’s why it’s more honest to say this is a PvP-focused game with RP-themed presentation, not a simulation. So when we talk about balancing, let’s base our arguments on how the game actually plays, not how it’s labeled.
5 Guns = Survival, Not Abuse
There’s been a lot of criticism about civilians carrying multiple weapons. Realistic? Maybe not. But necessary? Absolutely.
Why?
• We get rushed by 4–5 officers at a time
• We deal with server lag and slow hit registration
• We have to adapt mid-fight without vendor access
Carrying 5 guns isn’t about being overpowered. It’s about surviving against overwhelming odds. If civilians consistently bring that much firepower, it’s because the environment demands it, not because we want to break the game.
Gun Prices and Balance
Some have argued that weapons should cost $1,000 or more “because that’s realistic.” That’s completely disconnected from how the in-game economy functions.
Civilians make around $2,000/hour at best — and that’s if everything goes smoothly. If you raise gun prices to that level, you lock out the average player completely.
The economy is already structured in a way that favors players who spend Robux. If that’s intentional, fine — but you can’t use that economy as a foundation for balance decisions. It doesn’t work.
We need better earning potential for civilians, loadout saving systems, passive or legal income options, and less time-consuming gear recovery.
Bandages Aren’t High-Tech
There’s a weird argument going around that healing should be “technical” or delayed. That’s ridiculous. Wrapping a bandage around your arm isn’t a military operation. It’s simple.
If you want to make healing slow “for realism,” then PAVA shouldn’t be a one-click disable. Balance should be consistent. And right now, it’s not.
The PAVA Is Overpowered — Period
Let’s break it down.
The PAVA
• Heavily slows the target
• Partially blinds the screen
• Disables aim, movement, and shooting
• Activates instantly
• Requires no aim
• Is used before tasers for guaranteed lockdown
This is not a “support tool.” This is an overpowered mechanic.
You can’t react. You can’t move. You can’t escape. There is no counter.
And that’s why we’re asking for balance. We’re not demanding to win every fight. We’re asking for a fair chance to play, learn, escape, and grow — because that’s what makes a game worth playing.
Right now, PAVA is being used as a shortcut to dominance. It removes tension and reduces every encounter to a one-click outcome. That’s not skill. That’s not fun. And it’s not what this game should be.
Final Thought
Thanks for reading. And thank you to everyone who debates this with us — even if we disagree.
Because here’s the truth:
If this many players are debating balance, then balance is clearly the problem.
Let’s stop ignoring it — and start improving it.
Stop using chatgpt.
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I can guarantee all of these long and informative posts are AI generated lmao
2 Likes
You say removal or heavy “balance” of PAVA will make it more fair? It removes the tool (with taser) that can protect an unarmed officer. This is London not a War zone. Guns get heavly balanced away then we can talk about PAVA. Also, you have GUNS, why are you so close that PAVa can hit you?
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Couldn’t agree more.
Basically you need to do it at a very short range and when you go towards a civ with PAVA/Taser they often shoot and think like this… Taser: You need to hit the suspect so if you are being shot at it could be an distraction as you have to react fast with it. PAVA: You have to get really close to the suspect and it might not always be possible as sometimes they are armed and shooting at you.