Let's talk about balancing

Buckingham Palace Suggestions
1

Hi all,

Over a fair few updates, we’ve been making a lot of statistical changes to weapons, vehicles, heists and the likes based on information and feedback we’d been given, including watching hundreds of different clips, spectating scenarios in-game and experiencing them ourselves.

We’re interested in how we can do better when making these changes, therefore, if you have any valuable feedback, please let us know. We’re looking for answers specifically to:

  • What is currently disproportionately unbalanced in the game, and why?
    • When we refer to ‘disproportionately unbalanced’, we’re covering things that are drastically unbalanced. For reference, the likes of the police receiving armour for free by default would not necessarily be considered ‘disproportionately unbalanced’, as it is a reasonable expectation that the police would receive understandably good equipment as paid for by the government.
  • How can we make balancing changes fairer for all players?

If you think something is unbalanced, it would be great if you could try get a clip demonstrating this so we can understand the issues from all points of view. We’ll do our best to respond to your comments.

Thanks!

9

I think we should stop adding what people don’t want,

First of all the jump feature where you need to wait after you jump to click on your mouse to shooot is absolutly terrible, now mutilple people need to learn to play without it. It could have been EASILY handled better, like ok bullet doesnt come out but the game can save the fact that I atleast clicked on my mouse and start shooting when I touch the ground. Now it result in my aiming at someone and nothing coming out of the gun. Or it could be just that you cant aim when you in the air this way there is no confusion on it and the movement become a lot more usefull. Right now it’s just who it who the most there is no fun in that. Idk for everybody else but I like my fight to be challenging standing still doing left right left right isn’t “chalenging’’ when there is movement there is adaptation and repositioning.

In total honesty I dont know who asked for stamina ? It’s making the movement part of the game lacking and this is a important part of every game that has firearm.

I think it would be best to take in consideration what I said earlier for the future update. :smiley:

4

I don’t think that there is any significant imbalance so far after the most recent update that introduced completely new gun statistics.

However, I do think that an easy way to prevent such an imbalance is by giving both “sides” an equal chance to express themselves. You could argue that you can always make forum posts about such topics or send in clips, but in reality, a lot of testing is done by the QA team. Now, I don’t want to open this topic again as I have mentioned it before, but the QA team should not consist solely of specialists. Entry to the QA team was never offered to anyone but specialists in the first place, which I see as one of the main issues involving updates.

I understand that the QA team has no direct influence on what is being added to the game, but they play a significant role when it comes to balancing things and testing features, as well as recommending changes or additions. If this is restricted to specialists only, then the civilian side does not really get a say.

Of course, you cannot “trust” some “random civilians” to not share confidential information, which is different when it comes to specialists as they are already held to high standards. HOWEVER, barely anyone would risk a permanent ban from the game just to leak an update to someone that they barely know.

Having civilian mains on the QA team would also make it easier to test certain features because you could have testing sessions that are very close to reality if both specialists and civilian mains are involved.

Let me know if this is something that you could potentially consider for future updates.

3 Likes
16

Hello @LeopardRoblox341

Responding to one of your latest messages:

“People do not tend to understand my views” but do you ever actually try to understand ours?

The developer specifically asked what is unbalanced and how balancing changes can be made fairer for all players. Instead of looking at the concerns from all four teams, most of your comments seem to focus on defending the RG and MPS side. It often feels like you care about balance when a change affects MPS or RG, but when a change affects civilians or another team, you are much more likely to dismiss their concerns or call it a skill issue instead of looking at whether the change is actually fair for them too.

From what I’ve seen, you are almost always on the MPS and RG side when these discussions happen. When civilians bring up something they think should be improved, you often respond by calling it a “skill issue” rather than actually discussing whether there could be a problem with the balance. That is why your comments come across as biased towards MPS and RG.

I’ve been part of MO19 before, and while I was in the division, I supported MO19 suggestions because I naturally understood their perspective. After leaving the division, I stopped taking sides and started judging suggestions based on what I believe is fair for everyone, rather than what benefits one specific division or side.

I’m not saying every civilian suggestion is good. There are obviously bad suggestions from civilians, just like there can be bad suggestions from specialists. But dismissing civilian concerns because “you have all been at the top of the pyramid” doesn’t actually address whether something is balanced or not.

You are completely entitled to agree with the developers’ changes, but if you’re going to tell civilians that they need to understand your views, you should also be willing to understand theirs. Balance should be judged from all sides, not based on which side you personally believe has more advantages.

1 Like
15

I agree with the general public that the jump stamina should be removed.

6

could we re balance the kriss vector it feels way to underpowered for the price

13

This serves as a reply to peacefulspirit’s comment:

After the former gun nerf before this update that made the SIG MCX incredibly superior, we complained aswell. We had no chance getting close to the SIG, which now, is not the case. We adapted after the previous nerf and so should MET do. The opinions of the PPSH are mixed but even some MPS/MO19 mains say that it’s a point of adaptation. If you see a ppsh, maybe think before driving into the suspect with your rifle. The PPSH is quite frankly useless for anything further than 10 meters which is why it’s supposed to deal a lot of damage in the area where it does actually do anything. Just adapt your gameplay. You’re talking about „skill“ whereas gamesense is part of said skill. Using your gun type to your advantage counts in and honestly the SIG has potential and still outperforms the civilian guns if used correctly. Don’t blame us for adapting faster and using the new gun types the way they were intended.

14

In the game players who are already rich and have money are able to make money so much faster and easier. New players have the worst car in the game have access to no guns unless bought do not have the ability to always easily bail out of jail pay fines and pay to unclamp their car.Compare this to an established player with thousands armoured cars which are multitudes times faster with more durability access to permanent automatic weapons and body armour able to buy the vans for heist and the national gallery starting fee. The only remedy to this is A hope someone who already has this helps you does these heists with you B spend ages grinding boring repetitive atm and shop heist which already have a barrier to entry through drills and duffle bags or C purchase money. Now you may say about jobs eg policing or repairman and that is fair but the player should get a choice of what to do to make money and their simply is no bridge between the types of players is the horrendous atm robberies and then national galleries. I think the fining system needs a heavy tone down a fine for one player is instant jail while for another it doesn’t matter. I think overall things like a cars engine and performance and customisation should be those high end things that cost money while durability and armour should either be heavily toned dow. Aswell permanent guns and armour should be removed I mean constantly forcing people who don’t have them to always pay for them at very high prices while some just have it forever seems stupid. But overall I think the game was balanced terribly why tasers can tase through cars or why spike strips always 100% work and completely immobilise a car in seconds these things which instantly stop any sort of momentum in a fight. Aswell theirs no skill to using the spike strips and once your spike stripped or tasers theirs 0 way out of it. In short the game should choose whether it wants to be focused on grinding and combat eg more updates towards that which it needs or more of a role play simulator with new cards and customization

8

Hello, I believe we can introduce some new bikes for civilians, particularly sports bikes. Currently, we only have one bike available for civilians, but it would be beneficial to add more legal bikes that can be purchased with in-game cash. These bikes should be priced lower than cars since we can’t accommodate four civilians on a bike, or even two.

I recently saw footage of the MET biker unit, known as the MET Ops 8’s SurRon team, pursuing a biker for failing to comply with traffic signs. The clip gave them a choice to live - Clipped with a medal.tv If we expand the variety of civilian bikes, MET bikers will also have access to bikes, which can assist in quick escapes through narrow routes where cars cannot go.

Additionally, we could consider developing two-seater bikes and improving their durability to enhance the gameplay experience on bikes. Additionally, we could consider developing two-seater bikes and improving their durability to enhance the gameplay experience on bikes.

10

I know this point will spark controversy, because quite frankly it is quickly becoming the new meta, well already has, and civilian-mains would not want to lose this, quite frankly, absurdly overpowered weapon in its current form. The PPSH-41.

I am by no means averse to a nice weapon buff, but this recent “balance” to the PPSH, where it does more damage close range, is a tad over the top. I do say this speaking as someone who predominantly plays as a civilian, the gameplay has become far too easy. I have seen a lot of officer-mains expressing how annoyed they are about the PPSH, rightfully so. The standard rebuttal from civilian? “PPSH is an SMG, it only does substantial damage at close range and the spread is significant at longer distance, keep your distance and engage bro” Logic is entirely wide of the mark.

A significant proportion of gun fights will occur at close quarters, and there is quite literally no means to mitigate this reality. A civilian commits an offence, that does not justify them being shot on sight, an officer misses their taser, or even succeeds, but ultimately fails to detain them, regardless, the PPSH melts the officer. There is not any skill involved in such an encounter. I will agree, I like the concept of SMGs performing better at close range, than a carbine or AR, but to such an extent that it is currently, it is a tad pale. The other weapons have been balanced really well, as far as I can tell. My suggestion, for the PPSH, lower the close range damage slightly.

A few clips I managed to record within the span of 1-2 minutes.

12

@peacefulspiritedaway Obviously its not against the rules but if an officer tries to taser rush and misses it’s on them, especially since doing so is very easy as of right now, i dont think they should start nerfing smgs and make it easier to get civs detained

7

I’m abit mixed on the guns, I understand you want SMGs to deal more damage up close. But for example on ARV your main gun is the G36K and its already pretty much the weakest because of its fire rate. Trying to combat SMGs at close range is almost impossible when using a G36k. Pretty much all the calls ARV respond are close range, already putting you at a disadvantage.

Following that, you should also remember that ARV only have 25% amour when civilians have access to 50% which puts you at a further disadvantage.

11

I just want to slide in a big comment because i see this in every single suggestion.

Can Civilians, Please, stop talking about underbalance.

You have all been at the top off the pyramid for as long as the game has been made public, but dare MPS or RG get something like armour and you are all over it, we need armour, because you guys attack in big groups, and have no rules.
But then, you guys all complain at all the specialists and Development, because you got killed by an MO19 with 50 Armour and you had 25.

Have none of you every payed attention to the fact that government teams, (MPS + RG) gain their equipment from said government, aka it’s provided, Civilians are not allowed to carry weapons or even own them, unless it is for hunting purposes, this isn’t America.

Just because you get killed one time by an MO19 or GG, you head straight to the forums “Remove Armour from GG and MO19” or anything else to try and nerf the teams, haven’t you all just thought about potentially getting better at the game?
Again, let me reiterate, what rules do civilians have to follow, lets list them off shall we!
ROE - No
AAR- No
Equipment Usage Regulations - No
Ah, see look at that. Now what is the one thing Civilians Have to follow the rules of?
Moderation. Which, suprisingly, 90% of you don’t commit anything Moderationable so you all are fine.
Specialists have all of the previous points above, on top of SPA/PSD/OMB, and yet you still complain you are underbalanced? Ridiculous.

The weapons, sure, they could do more damage for Civilians, but just hit your shots and attack in groups then you’re fine.
Jump shooting is ridiculous, it is completely unbalanced for Both sides of the game.

You are all complaining about it being removed from Civilian, but you will all get very very aggy if a Specialist decides to Jump shoot at you, and then you’ll complain for it only to be removed for Us but you get to keep it.

Balance is a double sided coin, but when there are intermittent factors, such as that RG and MPS are funded directly so their equipment is free, then there is not always an argument for Civilians to uphold.

You have all been on top of the game too long due to more unbalance than skill, now the game is shifting to be skill related for Everyone, now that seems like balance to me if Everyone has to do the same thing now, doesn’t it?

You all wanted balance, here it is, enjoy.